New Member Here!!!!
Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:29 AM
New member here! I got ahold of an old set of D&E plans from a friend. ( Prints dated : 4-19-94 )
I am a full time manual mill machinist by day and home shop machinist at night. So I live for this kind of stuff. Being a machinist and gun enthusiast leads one to projects like this!
So, I know this project won't be built overnight. But one does have to start somewhere.
( Looking through the forum I saw where RGG plans had posted for errors. Are there posted errors
for D&E prints?? )
I hope to learn a lot from other members here!
Posted 22 July 2016 - 02:45 PM
Welcome to a great forum !
I have a D&E gun about 80% complete but the project got stalled when I relocated out of state. I am just now getting close to jumping back into it.
What I learned in the meantime, and wish I knew when I started is the differences in the D&E and RGG designs. The D&E design is loaded with problems which make for a gun that flat out does not function. A very few have come up with patches to get the gun to work to varying degrees. The only plus to the D&E gun that I know of is that it is a near true scale model of the original 1874 gun.
The RGG gun is the one that is a far better design. It works nicely, as proven by the many that have built and fired them. The gun is not a scale copy of the original like the D&E, it was designed for functionality. The RGG departures from a true scale copy are minor and would only be noticed by someone extremely familiar with the originals. Over the years there have been revisions to the RGG drawings as well as minor changes recommended here by members that have built the gun. If you go the RGG route, check here for the latest revisions and suggested departures from those drawings.
Knowing what I know now, I would never recommend anyone to build the D&E gun, the RGG is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am about 80% complete with the D&E so will complete it and hope to get it to function with the patches folks have come up with
Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:58 PM
George, aka Sparky_NY, really laid out the facts for you. I have built both versions. I too was into the D&E way too far when I realized all of the problems with the design. It is a beautiful model but in scaling it down Doug introduced many weak points. Doug was a really nice guy and I talked with him both in person and via phone a number of times during my build. Actually the last time I spoke with him he was very ill and in bed but was still willing to discuss things with me.
I stopped short of putting firing pins in the D&E since I knew it would never work reliably and decided I won't even try. Besides, I would not want to take it apart to clean it with all the polished brass it would be a major pain.
My RGG does shoot but we made a big mistake when we milled the extractor slots in that we milled them straight in rather than at an angel. That resulted in part of the barrel being removed so every now and then the bullet wall blows out. When this happens it bends the extractor, jams the gun and is a big pain. I plan on redoing the end of the barrels this winter and trying to correct this.
All that said, I want to build one more gun. I hope to do something like Jerry, aka Cutter, has done. I keep hoping he will make a set of plans available as he has built a number of very nice working guns.
Posted 22 July 2016 - 06:29 PM
Thanks for the advice there George!! I am curious to pick your brain your brain a little bit to roughly know the problems with the D&E prints.
Are they tolerance problems between mating parts? Like , (Tolerance stack up) between two mating parts should
always be observed so your not knowing making something that will not go together? Sometimes there is a
little "fit and feel" to anything you are putting together.
Thanks for the heads up though.
Just curious thoughts I had.
Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:58 PM
Mark, do a little reading in the D&E section of the forum here, that will get you a overall idea of the issues.
Its not tolerance stackup, its design problems. Here are a couple
People have had problems with it not firing, with springs stiff enough to fire the gun is near impossible to crank, lighten the springs and it either won't fire of misfires galore. Its a matter of the firing pin design, they are blunt round noses and free to rotate. Nearly all commercial rimfires have non rotating pins shaped somewhat like a teardrop. Guys have done mods to address this.
Look at the extractor hook machined on the end of the bolt. Where the round groove is cut to accommodate the shell rim the remaining wall thickness on the bolt is extremely thin and the extractor hook breaking off isn't just common, its expected. There is not enough meat on the bolt to easily put a spring type extractor like the RG&G gun uses.
There are two of the biggest issues, there are more.
Posted 23 July 2016 - 03:28 AM
Thanks for the heads up and time to respond.
Ill do more research.
I appreciate it. I see what you mean more by, "design problems"
I am only asking questions to learn more, but hopefully not coming across asking questions in a judgemental way.
Good challenges are fun sometimes. But a guy doesn't want to end up with a project modified so much it ends up
just turning into a pretty display piece... Haha
It's interesting for sure!
I'll keep my head down for the time being and start collecting up material. Sounds like a lot of print reading and pots
of coffee are in order. Wintertime is coming!
I appreciate it!
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